Monday, March 19, 2007

the Aftermath

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- If elected president, Sen. Hillary Clinton said, she would likely keep some U.S. forces in Iraq in a supporting role after 2009 because America has "a remaining military as well as a political mission" that requires a presence there.
However, in an interview with The New York Times published Thursday, Clinton said the American troops would not play a role in trying to curb sectarian violence.
Rather, they would be positioned north of Baghdad to combat terrorists, support the Kurds, counter any Iranian moves into Iraq and provide logistical, air and training support to the Iraqi government "if the Iraqis ever get their act together."
"If there is not any political resolution, the civil war will continue and we need to get out of the way," she told the Times. (Watch how Americans think the war is going )
Clinton aides say her comments are consistent with a broader plan by Democrats in Congress to begin redeploying combat troops, with the goal of having U.S. forces out of Iraq by March 2008. However, some political analysts say her support for a continued presence in Iraq could touch a raw nerve with anti-war Democrats.
"They're really not sure that she's with them on Iraq and other issues," said Larry Sabato of the University of Virginia's Center for Politics. "So they're suspicious, and that suspicion shows itself in what they say about her."
In 2002, Clinton voted for a congressional resolution authorizing President Bush to take military action in Iraq. And although she's become a vocal critic of the way the war has been executed, she has repeatedly refused demands from anti-war Democrats to admit her vote was a mistake, although she has said "knowing what I know now, I would not have voted for it."
Of her two closest rivals for the Democratic nomination, former Sen. John Edwards, has said his vote in favor of the 2002 resolution was a mistake; Sen. Barack Obama was still a state legislator in Illinois at the time of that vote, but he has opposed the war from the beginning.
Wednesday, Obama outlined a plan for maintaining a U.S. presence in Iraq similar to Clinton's.
"Withdrawal would be gradual, and we'd keep some U.S. troops in the region to prevent a wide war, to go after al Qaeda and other terrorists," he said.
The question is whether, given her previous record on Iraq, Clinton's call for continuing a U.S. presence might resonate differently with anti-war activists.
"They are not inclined to cut her much slack," Sabato said. "They are inclined to cut Barack Obama quite a bit of slack and John Edwards some slack as well."


Kerry rejects call for Iraq troop withdrawal
Defeated Democratic candidate on “Meet the Press”By Bill Van Auken

For any of his erstwhile supporters who cling to illusions about what might have been had the vote gone a bit differently on November 2, the defeated Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry provided a definitive answer Sunday.Appearing on the NBC television news program “Meet the Press,” Kerry was shown a videotape of his fellow Massachusetts senator, Edward Kennedy, calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, beginning with the immediate removal of at least 12,000.“Do you agree with Senator Kennedy that 12,000 American troops should leave at once?” asked NBC’s Tim Russert.“No,” replied Kerry.“Do you believe there should be a specific timetable of withdrawal of American troops?” Russert continued.“No,” Kerry repeated.The tone of the televised exchange was the exact opposite of ambush journalism. It was evident that Kerry welcomed the opportunity to disassociate himself from Kennedy’s proposal and embrace a policy that, in all essentials, is indistinguishable from that of the Bush administration—one that means US military occupation for years to come.At the same time, the establishment media was anxious to get the Democratic standard-bearer on record, affirming the unity of the two parties of big business on the all-important issue of the continuing war in Iraq.“Now, obviously, you’ve got to provide security and stability in order to turn this over to the Iraqis and to be able to withdraw our troops,” Kerry declared in the interview. Asked if he would vote to approve the Bush administration’s request for $80 billion in additional funding for the Iraq war, he responded, “The likelihood is yes.”Providing “security and stability” is a euphemism for crushing the resistance to US occupation. It means killing thousands upon thousands more Iraqis and sacrificing hundreds, if not thousands, more US soldiers. This is what the $80 billion will pay for.The revealing interview follows the trajectory of the Kerry campaign. The senator won the Democratic primary by posturing as an antiwar candidate and denouncing Bush for “misleading” the American people, but once he emerged as the undisputed front-runner, he rushed to declare his commitment to the occupation, and even condemned the Bush administration for failing to send enough troops.He turned from trying to hoodwink the overwhelmingly antiwar Democratic base to assuring the US ruling elite that he could be trusted to prosecute the war, and do it more competently than the Republican incumbent. In granting the interview, Kerry was merely dotting the “i’s” and crossing the “t’s” on the policy that he advanced in the run-up to the election.Now, in defeat, Kerry speaks of the election as a “mandate for unity” and “finding common ground.” That ground, evidently, is to be found on the killing fields of Iraq.Kerry lost the election in November because the Democratic Party was unable and unwilling to offer any genuine alternative to the policies of the Bush administration. The Democratic presidential candidate embraced the fraud of the “global war on terror” and the lie that the colonial war to conquer Iraq and its oil reserves is part of this supposed struggle against terrorism.Interviewer Russert quoted to Kerry an article that appeared in Newsweek magazine citing a post-election meeting of Democratic Party supporters at AFL-CIO headquarters in Washington. Kerry, according to the report, “told the group they needed new ways to make people understand they didn’t like abortion. Democrats also needed to welcome more pro-life candidates into the party.” The magazine reported, “[T]here was a gasp in the room.”Asked if the report was accurate, Kerry replied, “It’s pretty accurate, sure.” He went on to say he would support federal legislation to require parental notification of planned abortions, a measure that would drastically undermine abortion rights, threaten the health of minors, and criminalize a legal form of medical care.The lesson drawn by Kerry and other leading Democrats from their defeat in the 2004 election is not to advance a program to counter the reactionary social policies of the Bush administration or end the war in Iraq. Rather, they are convinced that the party must turn even further to the right, competing with the Republicans in the use of “values” demagogy and appeals to religious backwardness.

Now, western fellas! Thanks alot! Anyway, I'm afraid that your protests and demonstrations would turn into a curse on the Iraqi people's future. I don't know how can the withdrawal of the US troops bring the peace on Iraq and take its people to a safe shore?
I think the coalition, including the Americans, should leave when the Iraqi security forces are capable of doing the job on their own. It's ironic that the so-called insurgents' policy of murdering members of Iraq's police force is probably the major factor is keeping foreign troops in Iraq. US troops should stay as long as it takes. Leaving early will cause a civil war and leave Iraq in total ruin. The Bush administration is going to have to cave in and supply more troops or else implement more heavy handed tactics by its current forces in Iraq and by the Iraqi troops. Neither option is politically "correct" so the lesser of two evils must be chosen. Leaving Iraq early will serve to encourage terrorism on a global scale to a degree that is almost too horrible to imagine. Unfortunately, it's impossible to set an exact timetable, too many variables. First, Iraq's own military and police force must be rebuilt before any withdrawal can be contemplated. US withdrawal before accomplishing this would be grossly irresponsible. I would not make too much of the recent opinion poll showing Americans believe the war is a mistake. I believe this to be true but I do not think it changes the fact that America must finish what they started there.Some people might think that it should be replaced by UN troops in order to restore the stability in Iraq. Well, I think the problem is not with the USA. In fact, if we rewind our memories back to the earliest days of Saddam's regime fall, the first bombing attack in Iraq was done by Al-Qaeda targeting the UN building in Baghdad.Believe me, friends! I don't support the occupation. But if the US armed forces have to leave Iraq in these critical moments, the situation will be more chaotic in Iraq. As soon as the US army leaves; Iran will hurry to support the Shiite and try to export thier Islamic revolution to Iraq, hence, KSA and other arab countries will intervene to help and support the Sunnis there in Iraq. In result, the civil war will become a bigger war and soon the whole middle east will be on fire!I want them to leave but not now! Not before establishing strong united goverment, The US should stay until the Iraqi army is strong enough to defend itself against the inflowing streams of incoming dangers.There's an arabic famous proverb which says
إن بعض الشر أهون
which means,Some evil can be milder...

38 comments:

Konfused Kid said...

لو باقي على الكحاب اشرف لك

Konfused Kid said...

that means, "If you have kept yourself to horny talk, it would've been better for you".

Translation solely so that Melantrys can understand it.

Your local Hairy Za3toot.

by the way, 'Kid' does not necessarily mean 'child' like you are continously referring to, I hate to break it down and explain it to you, but apparently you are the child here, rent any movie and see, when they say: 'he's a good Kid', it means 'khosh walad', which is clearly the way i intend to use it.

There, :P

Corey said...

Why Barack can't win: http://infohype.blogspot.com

Melantrys said...

Almost sounds as if someone is afraid that if Caesar channels his energy into writing about more serious stuff than porn he might prove to be a serious competitor.
Be fair and objective and admit Caesar's recent posts have been very good.

That said, it is sad that the American peace movement seems to be stuck in some pre war time zone.
It is absolutely wrong for the American troops to be there, yes, but how can any thinking, caring person (and that's what peace movement members are supposed to be) demand the withdrawel of the troops now?

If you had told me 10 years ago that anti-war me'd be saying the following, I wouldn't have believed you, but unfortunately it needs to be said (and so it should be said by them as well): I oppose the war on Iraq, but considering the situation within the country the American troops have to stay until the security situation can be handled by the Iraqi military/police.

Unfortunately the Democrats are the party that the people who took to the streets these past days will likely consider voting for, and the Democrats want to win the next election...

Melantrys

aNarki-13 said...

good post indeed.

a bit hard to read (literally, at least for me, because its basically one, big block of words.

try inserting more spaces and new-lines every once in a while..)

still, congrats for putting up solid material, instead of copy-pasting "Porn for Dummies" :))

take care, C. hope you liked the card.

Caesar of Pentra said...

اوكي يا خوش ولد بس (من فمك ادينك) لان انت مرة ترجمت النك نيم مالك الى الطفل الحائر كان هذا بمقالتك عن اوديسة عمر النسخة العربية. و علمود لاتضوج بعد ما اسميك طفل اوكي؟

Caesar of Pentra said...

Melantrys,
Thank you for complementing my recent posts.
As for the democrats,
I took couple of examples in my post; (Kennedy & H. Clinton). Even those democrats don't think that the US troops should be withdrawn at once. However, I'm afraid that the American public might success in de-fung the war.

Caesar of Pentra said...

13,
Your advice are always welcomed ;)
I liked the e-card, hehehe, but I don't know what to do with it? :))

Konfused Kid said...

LOL. I cannot be objective with Caesar ever, cuz I never take him seriously ever. And I don't want him to take me seriously ever too....

Walla dude, skip the politics bit, we are bored with it, keep up the bornoholio.

Melantrys said...

Well, Kid, dude, you're missing out on a very interesting facet of your pal then. It's your loss...

And don't listen to him, Caesar. Your recent posts have been good. Write about whatever you want. Make your blog as chaotic as mine and don't focus on one genre, but let it reflect everything you're thinking about.... You can also throw in the odd porn post to make Kiddo here happy... ;)

Or don't listen to any of us and turn it into a blog on, say, knitting. Whatever makes you happy. :)

Melantrys

Matt said...

"counter any Iranian moves into Iraq" You mean all the Quds Force members that we haven't stopped from infiltrating the Iraqi Police, Interior Ministry, Umm Qasr, and Basra? Ok! We started this thing, we need to finish it. We need to stay there till you guys can stand with your security forces. It's simple as that.

Caesar of Pentra said...

Kiddo, You know I'm in love with you man :)) I'm heterosexual though. lol

Melantrys,
Kiddo is accusing you by being my lawyer! hahaha

Matt,
Welcome again!
Yes! That's what I meant.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

The yanks aren't leaving Iraq till the last drop of oil has been pumped from the ground. Its that simple. Even if they could stabilize the country (and I doubt they can) they will never leave on their own. Its not the yankee way. Their entire history is filled with gunboat and jackboot diplomacy. Genocide is nothing to the yanks, their country was formed with the slaughter of 168 million Natives. In their history you can count close to 250 million people murdered so that they can grow fat rich lazy and stupid. The ONLY way the yanks are leaving is by either force or economic meltdown in their own country. Which is coming sooner than later. Iran is being targeted for the same reason Iraq was. Oil. Whoever controls the oil pumps controls the world. Our entire civilization is completely dependent on it. No oil, no economy, no military no nothing.

The twice unelected retarded monkey in charge of the yanks isn't intelligent enough to spit out a sentence on his own. How do you think he will have the brain power to solve the problems that he and his ilk created in Iraq ? He managed to bankrupt an oil company that daddy gave him to play with. How the hell do you bankrupt an oil company ??? That’s like winning the lotto every single day, but shrub managed to do it. Now he’s doing the same to the US. The US economy is falling through the floor, the dollar is poised to lose anywhere from 50 to 70% of its value (granting it will be worth anything at all). It wont be long until they yanks have nothing to play with. The military equipment they have squandered in Iraq is very expensive to replace and China just announced

“NEW YORK (Reuters) - The dollar fell sharply against the yen on Tuesday, erasing earlier gains, after a magazine reported that China would stop stockpiling foreign exchange reserves.
The Emerging Markets magazine quoted Chinese central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan as saying "many people say that foreign exchange reserves in China are (already) large enough."
"We do not intend to go further and accumulate reserves," Zhou was quoted as saying in the magazine, which was released at a meeting of the Inter-American Development Bank in Guatemala.”

If this means that the Chinese wont be floating any more US debt then the US is already bankrupt. Without Chinese loans the US has had it. The real estate bubble is bursting and up to 8.6 trillion dollars in home debt is soon to be up for renewal at prices the average yankee cant afford. Another nail in the coffin of the US.

I’d say that within 2 years the yanks will be out because they can no longer continue due to economic meltdown. If they go after Iran I’ll say that they will be out in less than a year due to the entire world turning on them for using nuclear weapons in support of Jewish dreams of Middle East empire.

The only way forward is for the Iraqi’s to fix what the US has deliberately broken. Don’t expect them to do it for you. The US doesn’t give a shit about any Iraqi. Never has done never will do. They care only about controlling world oil supply and trying to build themselves an empire. There is nothing they wont do to achieve those ends. The dream of stability under the jackboot on the yanks is just that – a dream. Iraqi’s need to solve this themselves and that wont happen while the yanks are infesting Iraq.

jhondie said...

Wow... a lot to comment on. Hillary Clinton's position of moving troops to the north of Iraq, to me, shows that she thinks that we will fail in Stopping a civil war in Iraq. Moving troops to the Kurdish region is logistically a smart thing to do as the Kurdish people support Americans and would welcome our support should a civil war break loose. The Peshmerga that I have worked with have shown nothing but contempt for the Arabs in the south. So logically speaking they would make great allies against the Arab Extremists.
Barak Obama has no chance to win the precidency. He is an African American. Its a shame to say but America is still predominatly white and many still hold racist views.
As for the Iraqi security forces. I think they are doing a good Job. Atleast in the Filistine area. These are good people, though a few clearly support Jeish Al Madhi if they are not members already. But they allow us to detain their leaders in their prison with no objections and we live with them. They do not seem to have any contempt for us. I think that even they are tired of the violence. There are actually a lot of Iraqi police in their prisons aswell. So these guys are trying to clean up their act. Their lives are on the line aswell, while we fight the insurgents and militants. It is their neighborhoods and Families being victimized by these criminals. I think we have found a common cause in restoring peace and security to Baghdad and hopefully the whole of Iraq.

Caesar of Pentra said...

Soldier!
From 1 to 10, how do you see the future of the security in Iraq after the next 3 months?
Anyway, Peshmerga have the contempt for all arabs! And they have some reason about that. They think that they've been mistreated by arabs all these past ages throught wars and the following "dictatorship" governments. Also, the controversial issue of Kirkuk is another trouble spot in the relationship between Arabs & Kurds.

By the way, I wanna ask everybody this; "Is America ready to elect a a coloured man for the presidency? And if not, Is it possible that we would see a woman rules the greatest country inthe globe? As being a feminist, I don't oppose that! But I'm afraid that 'Hillary" had to act hilariously and draw all the troops outta Iraq at once.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

No way will a black man get elected to the presidency in the US. Too many racists. If by some slim chance it did happen I'd bet any amount of money you wanna lose he'd be assassinated before the first year was out. Hillery…. lol… she’d as bad a george is. The democrats and the rethuglicans are the same coin just different faces.

jhondie said...

3 months? lets hope an 8 for Baghdad. As for the rest of Iraq, I wish there was more we could do.
As for a A black president, the only black man I would Vote for is Colin Powell and he is never going to run for office.

Melantrys said...

Yes, jhondie, tell the crazy little man how it is; maybe that will keep his homesickness in check...

P.S.: Crazy Little Man, please enable "other" comments. Linking people to my Blogger account by commenting is so.... pointless...?

I am found here now, after all. ;)

Matt said...

I'd be down (slang for, I'd do it) for electing a black female President. I have no problem with that. She has to have similar political views as mine. That's the only requirement, as far as I'm concerned. Caesar, what you have to understand is, politics is everything, to me when I pick a person to vote for. Skin color isn't anything and gender aren't a thing, as far as I'm concerned.

perry said...

Hussein Obama doesn't stand a chance. Hillary could squeak in.

Matt said...

Don't worry about this. The President will veto it. We're staying till the job's done.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

I’d be curious to know exactly what job you're doing over in Iraq Matt. Is it murdering 655,000 Iraqi’s in the name of freedom yankee style ? Or stealing their oil perhaps ? Perhaps its making bases for yankee dreams of empire ? And why aren't you over there yourself fighting ? You're not a coward are you ? Love to shoot bottles and targets that don’t shoot back but too afraid to go where the real action is ? Here is a couple of news articles for you. All about the cowardly acts of your countrymen in Iraq. Nothing to be proud of, but then when has your nation done anything to be proud of in its entire history ?

Iraqi deaths survey 'was robust'
By Owen Bennett-Jones
BBC World Service

The British government was advised against publicly criticizing a report estimating that 655,000 Iraqis had died due to the war, the BBC has learnt. Iraqi Health Ministry figures put the toll at less than 10% of the total in the survey, published in the Lancet.

But the Ministry of Defence's chief scientific adviser said the survey's methods were "close to best practice" and the study design was "robust".

Another expert agreed the method was "tried and tested".

Now there is security for you. Yankee style. Good job mission accomplished. Well almost because some Iraqi’s are still alive so I guess your nation hasn’t quite finished that job. Is that why you're staying. Till the last Iraqi has been murdered by your countrymen ?

Saudi king slams 'illegitimate occupation' of IraqLydia Georgi
AFP
March 28, 2007


RIYADH -- Saudi King Abdullah, whose country is a close US ally, slammed Wednesday the "illegitimate foreign occupation" of Iraq in an opening speech to the annual Arab summit in Riyadh. …

"In beloved Iraq, blood is being shed among brothers in the shadow of an illegitimate foreign occupation, and ugly sectarianism threatens civil war," Abdullah said. …

He also said that Arab nations, which are planning to revive a five-year-old Middle East peace plan at the summit, would not allow any foreign force to decide the future of the region.

In the past, Saudi leaders including foreign minister Prince Saud Al Faisal have often criticized US policy in Iraq but have never described its presence there as "illegitimate." …

Seems like your allies are abandoning you. Almost as if you wore out your welcome in the area don’t you think ? Why is it that 60+% of Iraqi’s want you out of their country if what you're doing is so wonderful and effective. After all you have fixed all the destroyed infrastructure, the hospitals are in top shape, the roads safe to travel and everyone is free to walk the streets. But wait, you haven't don’t even that. The sewers spill over, children die due to lack of medicine and you yanks cower in your bases unable to walk the streets without a giant target painted on your backs.

When you prattle the words of your twice unelected retarded chimpanzee you make yourself out the fool that you are. You are nothing more than the yankee version of the Hitler Youth. Wild eyes full of self righteousness and convinced its your duty as the master race to fix the world to your liking. You will fail, and that failure is going to happen very soon. Do you think the rest of the world will care about you when your economy is in tatters and your troops dead on the battlefield ? Or do you think the world will finally breath a collective sigh of relief that the latest group of fascists have been slapped back to the gutter they came from. Here is a last link for you. This is why you don’t want to bite off more than you can chew vis-a-vie Iran. http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm Be afraid. Be very afraid, because its coming for you. You have no one to blame but yourselves. And that twice unelected retarded chimpanzee sitting in the white house in your great and glorious dictatorship.

Matt said...

Mamalute, just to address your concerns about me not being over in Iraq (as I've addressed these on my blogs via the comments section some time ago): I will never be able to serve in the US Armed Forces due to a physical disability. If they rescinded the medical disenrollment due to the disability, I'd love to join but I can't. That's the simple truth. What I wrote was meant for Caesar. He's in agreement that (even though he's no fan of us being over tehre) we should stay till Iraqi forces can stand on their own. That's exactly what I meant. As far as every thing that has happened in Iraq since '03 and before '03, I really don't feel like getting in a flame war on someone else's blog over this. Regardless of whether we were right or not to go in, we did, and we have to finish what we started. Caesar knows what I mean and that's honestly all I care about, the fact that he understands what I'm trying to say.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

Its not a flame war matt. Its accepting that your nation is Iraq is the problem and never the solution. The sooner you leave the sooner things will improve for the Iraqi people. See I've been in the army. I dont find it romantic or cool or special. I dont find an org based in death and destruction to be something that should be promoted or held up as an Ideal.

Like Vietnam, you'll find the slaughter stops only AFTER your country leaves. Till then Iraqi's will die for no reason than greed for oil and dreams of empire. That pretty much disgusts me to no end.

Matt said...

If we wanted oil, why fly halfway around the world? Why didn't we just normalize relations with Saddam? That's what we did with Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, there's plenty of oil in Ecuador, Venezuela, the Gulf of Mexico, and a boatload (brand new stuff found) just north of Cuba to keep us satisified for a long time. What I fear most (I'd love to know Caesar's opinion) is that if we withdraw too soon, without establishing effective security forces, that like in Vietnam all hell will break loose when we leave.

Caesar of Pentra said...

Ok, guys! I'm worried about Iraq! What's going recently in Telafer is a seriuos thing and let's hope it won't go on and spread all over Iraq! :-S

Confessions of a Malamute said...

All hell didnt break loose when you left Vietnam. The slaughter stopped. It stopped because there was no yanks there doing it.

Pretending that youre trying to establish security is the lie that is being sold (currently) to keep you in the country. Oil is the lynch pin to the world. No modern country can do without oil. Yes there are other countries that have oil. This isn't just about supplying the US, its about supplying other countries like China. The US views China as a threat. No oil for China, no threat. If the US controls oil the US controls everything. The country that supplies the largest block of oil to the US isn't located in the ME. In fact its not even located outside North America. Canada supplies more oil to the US than any ONE other country in the world. As a complete block the ME supplies more but only if you take the entire ME as a block. Without your hand on the pump itself you cant control who gets the oil. The US wants to be world dictator. To do this it needs to control ALL sources of oil. Oil was one of the biggest problems the Germans had in WW2. They had no sources of their own. Without it the Wehrmacht literally ground to a halt. The same condition exists today. No oil and your entire country falls apart. No oil for transport of goods like food, medicine, no ability to get to work, your military cant function. Again, control oil you control it all. Which is why the US isn't leaving ever if it can help it. The Iraqi people stand in the way of US control of that oil. The US has no problem at all slaughtering entire countries full of people. In fact that is how your nation was founded. The Indian wars that made way for white settlement slaughtered up to 168 million people. In its entire history the US has slaughtered around 250 million people in its never ending wars of aggression and conquest.

You're a good liar though. You attempt to come across as an average person who believes in all the talking points spewed by your chimpanzee. But you're not. You make the same mistakes all you neocon “bloggers” / propaganda writers make. I wont tell you what they are I feel no interest in helping you make your lies better. But you stand out like a sore thumb.

Security will come back to Iraq when your paid murderers leave. Just like they did in Vietnam. Simple history. I have studied history for 30+ years now. I know what I'm talking about. Speaking of Vietnam, here is a link for you. Written by a US serviceman who did two tours of Vietnam. It outlines how and why the US really got involved in Vietnam. Its VERY long but well worth the read as the parallels to what is being done in Iraq are uncanny.

http://www.vietvet.org/jeffviet.htm

it was written using US documents that the US fought like crazy to keep secret. After a lengthy court battle the documents were released. Don’t expect it to appear in your school books as it doesn’t fit with the official lie of Vietnam.

You will leave Iraq just as you left Vietnam. And for the same reasons. You lack understanding of the people you are attempting to crush under your jackboot. You don’t understand what motivates them you don’t understand their culture you don’t understand their language and you don’t understand their history. You are doomed to failure there is no other outcome possible. Your own arrogance and ignorance is what is killing you the most. You can leave Iraq having slaughtered 655,000 people or you can leave Iraq having slaughtered hundreds of thousands more, but leave you will. And when you do you wont have your hands on the oil pumps. You will leave behind a nation that will remember you with hate for generations to come. But your chimpanzee and his owners are so drunk with power they wont see it till its too late and your nation is destroyed. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is why empires have failed throughout history and why yours will too. It will happen in our lifetime. Its happening as we speak. And you sit there writing worthless words hoping to convert, subvert and obfuscate the situation. Hoping to buy yourselves more time in the pathetic hope your dream of global empire will come true. How many will you slaughter before you yourselves are ground into dust ? Karma is karma, and yours is coming for you. The blood of 250 million people is on your nations hands. People don’t forget. They wait and bide their time for the right moment to strike back. That time is nearly upon us. What will you do when it comes knocking at your door and there is no one left who gives a damn about your nation to aid you ? You cant fight the entire world by yourself. You will lose. And to destroy the US we don’t even need to fight your soldiers. You have so many weaknesses they you can never protect that bringing you down could happen in mere hours. I can think of two ways right now that would see your country destroyed in less than 12 hours (without nuclear weapons or any weapons for that matter). But I wont write them here. Unlike you I have a conscience. I don’t want to inspire anyone.

So give up your dreams of empire and rejoin the human race, or die by your own power lust and greed. It really is that simple.

jhondie said...

Hi Ceasar! I'm not sure how this will come across, but I think you will think its good news. Heh. The Troop deployments have been extended. We are deffinately commited to security in Baghdad, hopefully they have plans already drawn up for the rest of Iraq.
Anyway Malamute makes a very valid point, we are the reason violence continues in Iraq, but not for the reasons he is stating. I've been in Iraq over 8 months in 2 deployments and I have yet to shoot an Iraqi, though I've had many opportunities to "legally" shoot some people. Violence in Iraq wont cease until Americans leave, because foreign fighters who want to kill, or defeat Americans wont stop coming to Iraq until we leave. They are the ones causing all the sectarian violence. They are the ones who are making the bombs and blowing up people in market places. The sad thing is America is actually safer with the battle ground against terror being held in Iraq. It is not the oil, it is the battlefield, that we are interested in. Well atleast that is the realization that I have come to. I hope God can forgive us for this selfish act, as it stands I am too ashamed to even ask an Iraqi for forgiveness for our trespasses. We don't deserve forgiveness, all I can do is do my best to provide security for the people in the sector assigned to me, and hope it is enough.

Matt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt said...

As a point, just because I don't want to get into a debate/flame war/whatever you want to call this, I'm not a "neo-con". In fact, there are many things the President has done that I don't support and in fact have much disdain for him. Just because I may support him on one issue doesn't mean I support him on all the rest.
I write how I feel about a situation. I have no allegiance to any political party or ideology, just my beliefs. As far as stopping China, why don't we invade Venezuela? China is getting quite a bit of oil from them and it's rumored that they'll be getting a huge payoff from the new Cuban discoveries.
I have no dreams of empire. Every country falls, at one point, and we will one day, as will Canada, and every other nation. To think that it won't happen, in my eyes, is the pinnacle of ignorance, naïeveté, and arrogance. As far as your comment about being able to take down the US in twelve hours, if you were to give anyone the right men and equipment, it could be done. You're right, we do have a weakness. We welcome people from all over the world to our country.
As far as the blood of 250 million people on our hands, I can't fathom how you got that number (unless you added up every single person killed since the colonists at Jamestown onward to today). Don't forget that Canada did its own expansion under England before it won its independence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Queen is still the head of state, right? Well, that's all I have to say for now. I just want people like Caesar to know that I won't leave them out in the cold if things go south. Good day to you, sir.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

Jhondie;

The reason the Iraqi’s are attacking you is you're in their country raping torturing and murdering your way to their oil. The US likes the level of violence and has no real plans to stop it. It helps justify their presence there. You see its really simple. When a tweeked out yank soldier murders a car load of innocent Iraqi’s it tends to get you hated. The surviving family members want revenge. This will continue till you yanks leave. Commitment to security is a joke. That arch war criminal Kissinger has admitted that the war is lost. Your unelected chimpanzee on the other hand is too dumb to see reality. Must be all the cocaine and alcohol abuse he suffered as a spoiled frat boy and draft dodger from the Vietnam war era coming back to haunt him. Seems it fried out his brain and doesn’t permit him to see what is in front of his face. Kinda like Hitler in the final days of WW2 ordering divisions to attack the eastern front when said divisions no longer existed.

You can prattle on about being an innocent soldier. You're not. Every soldier there is guilty. From the mechanic who fixes the tanks to the clerk who does payroll to the psychotic who murders car loads of innocent Iraqi’s. You're the problem never the solution.

The US isn't safer. It is more isolated and hated than its ever been in its entire history. With your constitution is tatters, with your army at the breaking point it wont take much for your government to fail completely. Then what ? A home grown general who decides enough is enough with the monkeys in congress and pulls a military Coup? The most popular book with high level yankee officers not too long ago was one written by Colin Powell. In it he described a US government that was corrupt and incapable of operating and was overthrown by its military. And yes it can happen there. Attack Iran and find out. Once the Iranians hand you your head via Sunburn anti ship missiles and your Iraqi army is cut off from resupply the powers that be in the military might just decide its time to deal with your chimp in the white house. Sunburn missiles once launched hit their target in 25 – 35 seconds. They don’t miss and by the admission of your own military there is no current defense against them. They were designed to take out entire american naval battle groups. The radar can tell a carrier from its escorts. Iran has doz’s of them and hundreds of Exocets. Air resupply of your army wont get you enough materials to keep your army going. It can supply at best 25% of what is needed. Can you say Stalingrad ? I knew you could.

Saying that the US is safe attacking innocent countries over there is delusional.

Matt

Venezuela is on the books don’t kid yourself. At the moment the US has its hands full in Iraq and isn't able to do anything about the South American situation just yet.

Here is a list of dirty wars tin pot dictators and wholesale slaughter of people perpetrated by the US for its entire history. It’s a VERY long list as you’ll see. In the section on numbers of dead, those numbers are deliberately VERY low.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/usinterventionism.html

Do you really think that people forget who it was that invaded their country and murdered their families ? They remember you alright. They know who it was that came and installed the brutal tin pot dictators who’s sole purpose was to rubber stamp trade agreements and allowing US bases that only favored the US and never benefited the people living there. They remember you as you are. Brutal killers and thieves. This has been going on throughout your history. In that shrub is no different than any other yank president. He’s just more blatant about it is all.

Canada has its own crimes indeed. However Canada has never tried to play world dictator. The US always has. Empires fail and yours is failing as we speak. Its only a matter of time until it collapses and that time is quite short. You have no reliable allies. England is seeking a way to get out of it, the rest of the world hates your nation, China is dumping its dollar holdings. Its said that an empire cant remain an empire if it has no goods to sell to the rest of the world. The US manufacturing sector is dead and buried. The US is 100% dependant on the goodwill of the rest of the world to be economically viable. The rest of the world doesn’t need the US at all to be economically viable.

5 years max and the US will find itself in the same place Russia did at the end of the cold war. Your debts and warmongering of your so called leaders will see to that. To get out of it you'd need the wisdom of Solomon. And you have a twice unelected chimpanzee for El Presidente of your dictatorship. Good luck with that.

Jhondie said...

Malamute. I will never claim to be innocent. I joined the military to kill people, or die trying, and I have 15 months left to do so. I just want to say 3,300? I think that is the number, is not a big number at all. I'm sure our "chimp" as you like to call him can tolerate much more then that :) I still remember on my first deployment when a convoy delivering us supplies got hit and 3 soldiers died. Know what came through our minds? "So does this mean we wont get our computers on time?" And America has not been attacked since we started our wars so I think My point is more Lagit then yours. The whole oil thing really doesn't make sence to me. Our politicians wont let us drill oil in alaska, california and the gulf coast even though they know we have a great deal of oil there, but they would spend billions to send our military to occupy foreign countries with oil? As for the rest, well only time will tell. Although a military coup sounds ridiculous. I know of one person in the service that actually likes the military. We hate our jobs :) Why the hell would we take away our chances of ever being able to quit.

Matt said...

"They remember you alright." I'm 20. I was just able to vote for the first time in the '06 Congressional elections. I missed the '04 Presidential, just barely. I had nothing to do with any of this because I was unable to vote.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

What Colin Powel wrote was popular with top officers in the US military. 3300 dead (so far) isn't much – unless you're one of the dead or one of their families. Attack Iran and that number could jump by 25,000 in a single morning. A Sunburn anti ship missile can take out a carrier in a single shot. There is around 5,000 people on board a modern US carrier. The average battle group has 7 – 8 major surface ships + one or 2 subs protecting it. Kilo class subs can hear your nuclear subs approaching long before your subs can hear them. There are at least 2 battle groups in the gulf with one more possible on its way. Those ships and crews are sitting ducks for the slaughter. Once those ships are sunk and the gulf closed to shipping for fear of Iranian cruise missile attacks the US troops in Iraq will have MAJOR resupply problems. You could see those troops easily cut off surrounded and at the very least starved out. If not wiped out. How happy would the US army be to lose an army of 140,000 ? How happy would the US navy be to lose 2 or 3 battle groups ? How soon would that chimpanzee be put against the wall and shot by said army and navy. It gets worse. Iran has anti aircraft "Radar” bought from the Ukraine that makes your stealth planes anything but stealthy. It doesn’t use normal radar beams to track targets. It uses the navigation systems on enemy aircraft against itself. Systems you cant turn off in modern fighters and bombers. This radar can watch planes take off from their runways up to 500km away. Even stealth aircraft. That chimp in the white house isn't too popular with a lot of generals in your military. How many has he forced out for expressing an opinion contrary to what the chimp wanted to hear ?

Absolutely, the lower ranks don’t want to be there. I’ve been in the military I know what its like. In fact I come from a military family. My grandfather fought in WW1 my father in WW2. Privates retire. Generals don’t. A general is a general for his entire life. Even after they leave active service. Now again how many generals who were forced out harbor a grudge against the chimp responsible ? It would take less than you’d imagine for a Coup. It would require a trigger for them to act but once that trigger happened your civilian government could find itself in your torture chambers themselves. Kinda a sweet irony there though. Kinda like the man who invented the guillotine during the French revolution only to be executed by it himself.

Will a Coup happen ? Without a trigger most likely not. Go after Iran and lose a substantial amount of equipment and troops and that could change.

You don’t have to utilize an oil field to control it. You just need to be able to have the troops necessary to keep other hands off it. Oil runs EVERYTHING. Without oil every modern nation on earth grinds to a halt. You can starve to death in a room full of gold. You can starve a nation if you control the oil. You can also make sure that nation doesn’t have enough oil to ever pose a threat to you. The US sees China as a threat. Rightly so. China is a threat to US control of the world. China has dreams of empire too. But China doesn’t have a secure supply of oil. Its dependent on the ME and other countries for that oil. The US could never successfully attack China. But the US doesn’t need to. All it needs to do is control the oil and the leaders in Beijing will do whatever they're told. This is a proxy resource war that is happening between China and the US although its not called that yet. Future historians will call it that. China has the US by the short and curlies right now. You require Chinese loans to exist economically. It’s the only thing keeping your dollar afloat, and your economy with it. You have no manufacturing anymore. It went to China and other third world countries. You cant exist as a service nation. There simply isn't the tax base or the revenue base to sustain your dollar and economic way of life for that. That is the reason that you own China all by itself almost 2 trillion dollars in trade. The worst mistake the US did was allow its manufacturing to move overseas. You don’t even make your own computer chips anymore. Your auto industry is dying fast. Your basic infrastructure is falling apart. New Orleans was a taste of things to come. You lost that city from a storm. It has yet to be rebuilt. In short the US is a one armed man hanging off a cliff. And he has VERY itchy balls. Not a comfortable situation to be in. Its one that will leave you dead at the bottom sooner or later. Given the hatred of the US that your chimp has managed to generate against your country do you really think anyone will care if you go Splat ? The English wont bail you out. They don’t have the money for a start and they would quickly forget about you out of political necessity if it happens. What other country has both the economic power and the political will to bail you out ? I cant think of one. Due to nuclear weapons the US cant be attacked directly. We’d all be nuked off the planet. But to destroy the US you don’t have to attack it with guns and bombs.

Matt

You are not personally responsible for anything more than you have personally done. But there is a chain there. If you repair tanks and those tanks are responsible for killing people you are responsible for those deaths too, even though you didn’t personally pull the trigger. The rest of the world holds the US responsible for what it has collectively done. It wont care that a soldier is 18 or 20. All it will care about is that the US has done enough war mongering in its history and its now time to pay the piper for the dance. The people paying it will by and large be those who never made the decisions that got them into that mess in the first place. Chimp boy will be cowering in a bomb shelter somewhere. He couldn’t even show up to the plush job daddy got him to keep him out of Vietnam, he certainly wont be anywhere near the front lines when the shit hits the fan. Nor will anyone else in congress. It’s the innocents who pay. The soldier who only joined to get money for university pays with his life or his sanity or major body parts. The Iraqi people have paid the most and will continue to do so for centuries to come. All those DU rounds will be in their environment forever. As a side note since most americans don’t care about Iraqi dead, the incidence of lung cancer in returning US troops is staggeringly high. Blame DU for that. One speck of that in your system and your in trouble. Again the people making the decisions to use that aren't the people who will actually be using it. The jerkoffs in power are the last to pay if they ever do at all.

As for being able to vote it wouldn’t matter if you did or didn’t. You election system has failed at least twice. Chimp boy was never elected. Ballot box stuffing has long been an American tradition. Now its gone high tech with touch screen machines. Your government has sold you out. Chimp boy doesn’t want democracy in his own country. In a fair election I think you'd see the rethuglicans disappear as a party. The dems are no better. Both are beholden to the military industrial complex and jewish blackmail. Both parties are the same coin, just different sides of it. Gives the illusion of having a choice without really having one.

“Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open”
Lord Thomas Dewar

'The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism. '
Sir William Ostler MD

and one last one

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity

jhondie said...

Ukraine Radars huh? heh I can flick a switch in my humvee and jam every frequency in Baghdad. Ask the locals :) Sorry about that guys! Want to hear an interesting fact About the Afghan War? only 120 US soldiers were on the ground in the first week of that war. And if I remember correctly the Taliban toppled in only a week? 3 weeks for Sadam's Regime. Too bad we suck at fixing the mess we make. There really should be another branch of the government trained for the sole purpose of reconstruction. Wars suck for everyone involved. As for death, well thats why we pray before every mission. God will save our souls.

Confessions of a Malamute said...

jhondie

god isnt on your side. Your god wont bless you for murder.

The Ukrainian radars cant be jammed. See they dont use normal radar beams like you do. They lock onto the enemy planes navagation system itself. Jam that and your own planes cant fly.

Captain Kirk said...

this is regarding malamutes over simplified description of US history and modern events.
First off-disease from our european brothers and sisters killed more native americans than any sword, musket, or cannon. and you can thank our spanish brothers for the party invitation of smallpox.

2nd- vietnam, cambodia, laos, and all those nice cozy little countries had civil wars raging long before the US stepped in. again we can thank our French, Chinese, Russian, brothers for yet another invitation of political unrest within the southern asian nations.

the US saw an oppurtunity to change political pull in the area, whther right or not, we went in guns a blazin.

the hmong are still being murdered by the laotion (sp?) governemtn some 40 years after the fact. and vietnam is at peace, now, because we left and let the north come in, slaughter thousands and win the civil war.

3rd the US was attacked my muslim extremists, we are not a nation used to terrorist attacks like, say, England. we tend to over react. something im sure canadians never do. although why would you when absolutely nothing happens there. i'll be the first to admit as a US american that we (many) do live lives that allow us the luxury of ignorance to the constant fighting and violence in the rest of the world.

Funny cuz the only difference between the way Canada and the US handles foreign relations is that Canada does nothing and the US actually tries something (not always the best approach but hey...)

anyway, we were attacked, led astray by an idiot president. who shifted our anger towards our old enemy , saddam. instead of cutting the balls off of osama and mailing them back to extremist world we went after a man who was NOT respected by the extremist muslim world but was a good wall trophy for our idiot president.

yes we have made some bad choices , but so has every fucking nation in this world.

Quit acting like the high and mighty Canadian (contradiciton in terms) and take the blame as well.
Canada and the rest of the western world uses up oil too. YOU guys drive SUV's heat your homes in those cold canadian winters and feed your police force oats (crack at mounties). That oil that we are stealing from the iraqis is going into YOUR car as well. So if youre gonna blame the US you need to realize that your hand is in this mess too.
And no, we shouldnt leave. we shouldnt have been there in the first place, but the past is the past. WE including England, Canada, Australia and our many other allies went right along with the idiot furher(sp?) bush and now we have totally fucked Iraq up.
we need to spend our soldiers lives, and money to fix this situation.
This is a problem that the entire western world needs to cooperate on instead of just sitting back and saying "oh those damn yankees, they are such greedy bastards with no morals...blah blah blah"

Im going to be a soldier is that wrong said...

wow this dude Confessions of a Malamute is a harsh as hell look dude you talk alot of mess on here but are u in a postion to do anything about this war are you in the region help i just decided to join the the army just so i cant get a first hand look at the choas in iraq so then maybe if im not killed i can come back to make differnce in my country to let people really how stuff is in iraq i also know that the gov has not taken the right steps toward helping that much in iraq but if we leave now we shall see how better shit gets out there i really dont think stuff would just get lovely and peachy when we pull out but dont talk about thing thats things you your self arent willing to go do